How many among us believe in afterlife, judgement day and heaven/hell. Most Hindus believe strongly in the concept of afterlife and heaven/hell. Judgement day is as old as Adam and Eve, so is the concept of heaven for the good souls and hell for the bad souls. The question is what really drives people to differentiate and make the choice of good over bad. Is it the fear of God, fear of hell, fear of an unattractive rebirth or an inherently good heart.
What if the concept of afterlife and heaven/hell is nothing but a fantasy. Is it a figment of imagination like the numerous superstitions that dominate different cultures. Imagine a world or society without the concept of afterlife, heaven or hell, or judgement day. Will it alter the mindset of people towards differentiating between good and bad, especially since there would be no punishment or reward propotional to our deeds, no heaven to reward our good and no hell to punish us for our bad deeds. Toeing the previous line of thought is God a mirage, an invention of imagination, out of the need that arose for devising a greater set of rules for society to live by. Rules that have far reaching consequences than civil or criminal law.
If it was firmly established that there is no afterlife, judgement day or heaven/hell would it still drive people to do the good deeds? Will our conscience be strong enough to make a sane judgement between good and bad without the concept of God, heaven or hell hanging over our head. What then will motivate people to do more good than bad, what will bring about a change of heart among hardened criminals? Gauntlet of emotions thunder past me while I contemplate these questions.
So then who are saints and godfathers, what is their role in society? That shall take an entire post another day because I have nothing but contempt and cynicism for them and those who believe them.
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14 comments:
Hi, your comment at Lapsus Linguae brought me here. quite thoughtful ur blog is - so i chose to comment!!
coming to your post, I believe in neither of it: afterlife, judgement day and heaven/hell. But there has been long, profound discussions on how one classifies good or bad - something that i categorise as good maybe bad for you. either way i believe i am to an extent a morally good soul.
But i believe in: 'you only reap what you sow'. say i consider back-stabbing to be bad, i believe if i dont do it, others wont do it to me. it is a simple cause and effect relation.
may be i am wrong, anyway but thts my 2 pence.
:-) keep blogging!! it does a lot of good!
Hi Renuka,
I agree with you and I definitely belive in causality. In fact most of my thoughts and actions are governed by causality. What I wanted to say in the blog but forgot to say was there should be a new world order accoutable only by conscience. I know this would never work unless theres some kind of mass hypnosis :) But I strongly
believe along with all the Gods in the world, conscience should be at the top of the triangle.
I shall try to break your "partial anagram" as you call it.
I believe religion as such was invented to control the society and children are scared emotionally and by guilt for not falling in line.
@Vitalstatistix
It is true not everybody thinks of being sent to hell or being punished before doing something, because religion is not about instant chastisement or gratification for that matter. But, dont we all look back and feel that certain actions that we committed were wrong or feel that we could have another chance to do it differently. My question is what then brings about this thought, judgement day or conscience. I believe its conscience and that should play a far greater role than religion. But then again its not going to happen for it can never be forced unlike religion :)
@Tarun
Thanks for your opinion.
yeah!! true...
anyway i really feel happy if ppl touch upon the partial anagram - thanks!! i wont say it is simple - but it cud be cracked. and when u do it modify the hyperlink reference accordingly... :-)
"And what is good, Phaedrus
And what is not good-
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?" Robert M.Pirsig
Isn't the good, as percieved by many, the conditioning received by parents and other humans right from the day we are born?e.g-"dont do that, that is bad."
Would a child devoid of any conditioning, in terms of moral right/wrong, behave the same way we do?
Is the inherent conscience the same for all?If yes, how many of us are in touch with our conscience?What does it take to be in touch with one's conscience?Do people who do "bad"(without any reason like taking revenge,self-defence etc) are made like that?
Imagine a society without moral rules. Would eveybody act in peace or do we need the choas for existence?Is the balance of two opposites natural for LIFE?If so, Is that why we have rules to keep the balance?
@Wookie:
"And what is good, Phaedrus
And what is not good-
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?" Robert M.Pirsig
Ah!! Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence, still waiting for amazon to ship my order on that one.
Would a child devoid of any conditioning, in terms of moral right/wrong, behave the same way we do?
A child I can forgive but anybody else who is capable of making an informed decision, its downright shameful.
Is the inherent conscience the same for all?If yes, how many of us are in touch with our conscience?What does it take to be in touch with one's conscience?
"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them" (Romans 2:14-15)
Imagine a society without moral rules. Would eveybody act in peace or do we need the choas for existence?Is the balance of two opposites natural for LIFE?If so, Is that why we have rules to keep the balance?
That is exactly my point. Is religion and God nothing but a set of rules to keep society in balance??!!
@woaaaw
ethavathu thappa sollyirundha manichiko!!!! haha
Interesting post. I see why wookie made her comment on my blog. On another note, I see my blog linked from yours. Cool. Thanks.
What is created of the mind, of the known, has to be limited, is it not? Our minds, conditioned as they are, would typically be able to create with what it has in its repertoire. Hence, our images and gods and godliness is all constructed from this and is, hence, a collective representation of our fear. Islam doesn't have an image and doesn't believe in image worship, but that doesn't dispel the human-ness in its religious tenets. It would be interesting to ensure that every individual develops her/his own understanding of religion. My gut feeling is that not even 10% of the population (world over) would actually strive to do so. We like things readymade. We like answers to follow questions.
So is there no god? I shant get in there but I am sure most of us have had a brush with god. I don't feel that god lies in the pictures and sculptures although we might see godliness in the painting itself!
Now to your question.
"If it was firmly established that there is no afterlife, judgement day or heaven/hell would it still drive people to do the good deeds?"
I have my sincere doubts. I am of the opinion that the human conscience is a restrained thing, straining at its leash. Once we drop all charges and all possibility of punishment and downfall, people would act out of their base instincts. It is similar to what will happen once the govt. announces that there will be no more arrests and no one shall be penalised for anything. Do you think people will pay taxes? Do you think people will pay for the goods that they take from stores?
Do we now see why we need laws and why we need religions for the mass and religious (not pertaining to religion) pursuits for the individual? By rejecting religion and passing it on to your children aren't you creating a religion yourself?
I shant stop here. Now let us go a few years ahead in time. Laws were dropped today and we are jumping about 5-10 years ahead in time. What might we see? No laws, yes. People will build the roads that they want by getting like minded people together. They will build bridges because they need it and don't stop people from using it (mind you, they cannot create laws). They will construct and run schools because they believe in education. Goods will be manufactured purely on need basis. People will focus more on basic needs like ensuring clothing, food and shelter and every ambition to secure would be beaten up (well, as soon as you become CEO and buy a nice piece of chrome on 4 wheels, I am going to come along and take it away!). So the need to accumulate and secure will be walloped badly. People will mostly exist because they don't wish to die. People won't steal agricultural land because they are only interested in the produce. It would boil down to survival of the fittest and slowly evolve to live and let live. I suppose murders and rape would spike but slowly things would sink, as there are no laws and prostitution would be fine, and only the power-neurotic would want to rape and not the desparate ones. As for murders, once you can get anything for no effort, murders would be mostly by those who are mentally deranged and those who seek revenge and the like. But, yes, chaos is bound to rule. If we go another 20 years down in line, I have a feeling that things would be more placid.
I will leave it to you to figure out a similar set of scenes, once the religions of the masses are dropped.
Sometimes the ideal is more dangerous than the actual.
Eroteme,
Thanks mate, I havent received such a dissection or argument for a piece of my writing since writing my SOP :)
Forgive me, if I have misled you in the post. For I was questioning the tenets of religion and the preachers of religion, not God. You are true we all have had our brushings with God.
Secondly, I wanted to portray or paint a society without religion, not without governmental regulations. My question was, is religion an extension of the rules of society. I often claim(to my friends) that my conscience is my God. So, is such a society possible? You have amply answered my question in that.
Nevertheless, it was interesting to know your opinion and I had imagined you would say something like this, if and when you read my post!!! A thorough analysis I must say. And through your writing Im intrigued by what you would paint as an ideal society. Perhaps you could enlighten us on that in your next post. Maybe elaborate on your centre for creativity.
Something very stupid happened today. This goes to show that I still don't have my fundaes clear about the basics of life!!! :-))
I was typing out a long comment in response to your latest comment. While I was at it, the electrician came over and said, "Saab, main bandh karna hai. Woh do plates..." And went on to give me the details of some problem that we have been facing over the past few days with the electricity main board. I said, "Theekh hai, tode dher ke liye bandh kar lo." and then returned to my comp to realise that my comp runs on electricity too!!!
Lost out that comment... Let me try and re-create it.
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The import of your post is clear to me. I was simply building a foundation for my comments which followed. It is common to hear people respond to a "Religion is but the work of the human mind" with a "So? Are you saying that there is no God?" I was merely providing a placebo for that before proceeding with the leitmotif of my comment.
I understand that your concern is with an ideal society and the possibility of one and the works involved to achieve one. I wanted to comment on your quote of "Romans 2:14-15" from the Bible, which you had employed in your response to wookie's comment. I don't see many differences in the organised nature of the state and of the clergy. They target different facets of one's life but they are both organised approaches to tackling the problem of inherent non-uniformity in the human psyche.
The reason I did not consider a scenario of religions abandon was purely to let you see the chaos created in stopping something as mechanical and "common-sense" as laws. The laws of the state are not based on belief but on the need to live comfortably. People would say, "This is common sense. We can't do without it." But once dropped the human element comes out. I still insist that I would leave it to your imagination and understanding as to what happens once the religions of the masses are castigated. My picture is too gory to present in writing.
"...what you would paint as an ideal society" I don't think I would. I am happier painting larks, lakes and landscapes... :-)
The search for an ideal is what lead to form organisations with the central concept of an ideal in place. That has failed for the millions of years man has walked (or crawled or rolled down a hill) on this earth. Hence, my statement at the end of my earlier comment:
Sometimes the ideal is more dangerous than the actual.
I am not intelligent enough to know the ideal, but clear enough to know that it does not exist. :-)
"Would a child devoid of any conditioning, in terms of moral right/wrong, behave the same way we do?"
"A child I can forgive but anybody else who is capable of making an informed decision, its downright shameful. "
I don't think you understand my question.I was merely talking about the set of rules established and passed on from generation to generation.
I see what wookie is getting at. If a child is not introduced to right and wrong, externally, then what would it grow up to contain? Wouldn't its choices be heartfelt and true, rather than contrived.
Eroteme- thanks. I just didnt want go into explanation since I wanted others to know what it feels like-freedom atleast the distant dream of sweet freedom.and you words under blog description have captured it so beautifully, I still am not over that one.
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